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Wow. Spamhaus Piece Draws, Er, Comments


By Ken Magill

Want to know why Spamhaus keeps emailers at arm’s length? Check out the comments left by someone calling himself Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP after last week’s Q & A with Spamhaus chief executive Steve Linford.

I’ve republished them below, oldest on top, so they can be read in the order they appeared. They speak for themselves. They are a small example of what Spamhaus deals with every single day.

While I’m not asking anyone to agree with everything Spamhaus does—I certainly don’t—I do think maybe a little more ongoing empathy from email marketers is in order.

Meanwhile, I’ve got a message for HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP:

I have been a reporter most of my career. And as a reporter I have always lived by the credo “if your mother says she loves you, check it out.”

As a result, I take no one at face value. I do not believe there is any such thing as an unimpeachable source. This credo applies to Spamhaus as much as anyone else.

That said: I am certainly willing to consider the idea that you may have a point. The thing is, I’ll be damned if I can figure out what it is. No offense, but your comments were rambling, wrist-slittingly boring and incoherent.

Your comments also seemed to be firing back at points made elsewhere. Reading them was like walking into an insane asylum and hearing one side of a patient’s telephone argument that had already been going on for an hour.

And if you’re trying to win converts, you’ve got a hell of a way of going about it.

Threatening phone calls to someone who retweeted an article? Really?

If you’ve got something discernable to say, say it. And stop with the “terrorist” nonsense. As I pointed out in the comments to you, I had a front-row seat to 9/11.

When I think of that day, this is what I think about. And it makes me want to kick your ass.

As for your behavior, Steve Linford graciously agreed to answer some questions from Magill Report readers. Since he is under no obligation to so much as empty a nostril in our direction, common courtesy dictates he be treated with respect while he is in the online equivalent of my home.

Instead, you did the equivalent of coming into my home, getting drunk, arguing with my guests and pissing in my punch bowl.

As a result, I disabled the comments for the article you polluted. Against my better judgment, I re-enabled them for this piece to see what happens.

I will, however, disable comments for each of the rest of the Linford Q&As. That is, of course, assuming he wasn’t so put off by your behavior that he’s thrown his hands up and decided engaging Magill Report readers isn’t worth his time.

And frankly, I wouldn’t blame him if he did.

As for everyone else, the comments that led to this post start after this paragraph break. Just scan them. If you try to make sense of them, the crevices of your brain will begin to seep blood:

Posted by: STOPhaus
Date: 2013-03-19 16:07:57
Subject: We don't care

how your filters work and how you dictate email from a series of shady businesses. We care about the lack of authority and the consequences of your actions on others.


Posted by: RESUMEhaus... CONTINUEhaus?
Date: 2013-03-19 18:16:03
Subject: We do care
Posted by: RESUMEhaus... CONTINUEhaus?
Date: 2013-03-19 18:16:58
Subject: We do care

You don't get it. Receivers are using third party services to evaluate their incoming mail stream because they *want* to. Spamhaus (or any other similar service) are completely unable to impose themselves on others. They only have any say in any matters because receivers explicitly choose to make it so.

Posted by: STOPhaus
Date: 2013-03-19 18:29:07
Subject: Don't be deceived

If all Spamhaus did was maintain a list that is used by free will, we would have no issue with that. That is not how they operate and terrorism has a definition.

Posted by: Ken Magill
Date: 2013-03-19 18:54:32
Subject: Terrorist?

As someone who was in Tower One when the first plane hit on 9/11, I find the use of the word "terrorism" here more than a little amusing.

I've seen terrorism up close and this ain't it.

Posted by: GOhaus
Date: 2013-03-19 19:22:16
Subject: I spy with my little eye... a spammer!

Just so readers are aware... "STOPhaus" is Ohio spammer Andrew Stephens, listed on Spamhaus ROKSO here:

Exactly the sort of scam spammer all email users loathe and the whole industry fights against.

Posted by: STOPhaus
Date: 2013-03-20 00:03:46
Subject: Last time reminder

We are not one person. We are not Andrew Stephens. We are not spammers. We are not cyber-criminals. We are STOPhaus. We have one goal and one goal only. To End Spamhaus' reign or tyranny.

This is notice that Spamhaus has mislead you into believing something that is false, as they have done for years. They published a story to cover up the media against them. They are scared and should be.

We demand that Spamhaus stop misleading the public and face the public scrutiny for their actions. This includes allowing content on the web for and against their activities to remain visible for public viewing without the use of SBLs to take down opposing content.


Posted by: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP
Date: 2013-03-20 07:58:46
Subject: the "SpamHaus" "Project"

all that bullshit about that antique smtp email shit and people 'choosing' to outsource their censorship on it to spamhaus would be all nice and well if:
1: spamhaus would stick to just listing UCE originating IP addresses
2: the problem would not be SMTP itself, it lacks a friends list, where every protocol written after 1964 and still in use has one.
3: there would not be LAWs against UCE, and in cases where there are not, too bad, deal with it, start a political party or something, and feel free to try to change that.
4: spamhaus would not constantly add non-related ip addresses to their list, which they advertise themselves as to be used to block or hinder communications from/to those ip addresses, in an effort to 'excersise pressure' aka 'blackmail'
5: 'spammers' with 'listed' isps would not simply move elsewhere
6: spamhaus would refrain from posting personal details and slander, such as in the case of edataking aka andrew stehpens, whom btw is by far not the only person in operation stophaus, and oh eh if a 'nutcase' can keep your shit down for 5 days and interfere with your dns replies on your blacklists on his own, there is something severely wrong with your bunch of offshore tax circumventing limiteds and the people behind them anyway ;)
7: spamhaus would not abuse the power position, aka e-penis they gained over the years, to hinder certain economic areas (russia and china primarily)... most likely spamhaus has nothing to do with 'fighting spam' but all the more with politics. (Accidentially listed wikileaks recently ? ;)
8: when we take a look at the number of ips that ACTUALLY sent out spam, which, in our case, is -0- as we block that old shit since 2004... firewall honey ;) we come to the conclusion that less than 0.1% of all ips in their database are actually spam related, the rest is just there as a means of blackmail.
9: spamhaus does not have required permits to store, process, and PUBLICIZE (which, never can be legal) personal details in the first place.
10: spamhaus a non profit? hahahaha right... nice boat you got there in monaco steve :P if people fall for that trick, they're too naive to be allowed to turn a computer on. what you see here is a bunch of people with funding from certain political groups, operating a censorship structure, usually used to hinder other economies.
11: in as far as the netherlands is concerned (3 of their main sponsors, surfnet (a state agency not even entitled to serve non-educational instutions), xs4all (main infra), bit internet, everything about spamhaus and what they do both violate the privacy laws and the net neutrality law.
12: in as far as the uk is concerned, spamhaus doesn't have permission from the ICO. (we checked)
13: in as far as switserland is concerned, we don't even need to get started on that... don't they have einstweilige verfugungen there... lets get a bunch of those shall we ;)
14: spamhaus doesn't only aim to prescribe to isps who should and should not be allowed on the internet, without any court proceding whatsoever, nooo, if the isp wipes their ass with their irrelevant little offshore limited and chooses not to help them maintain their illegal database full of slander, they start to blackmail multinational carriers by listing -their- ranges as well, hindering -their- email communications to 1/3rd of the world, in an effort to force them to breach their contracts, and often trade laws, to get a paying customer disconnected.
15: the takedown of spamhaus is a logical step, considering that we can't exactly figure out what countries laws they're bound to and they refuse to make statements on that, we consider it fair game to use -their- tactics against them, and just ddos the crap out of em and hack their nameservers and interfere with their routing. after all, most of us have been on the internet for a significantly longer time than any of those dusty nerds and we WROTE the protocols they only talk about, in fact, unlike spamhaus, we OWN significant parts of the internet.
16: the built-in 'abuse' (freedom of speech?) feature of SMTP, the fact that it does NOT have sender-issued passwords for the receivers, or a friends list, and the fact that people WILL always use this to send unsollicited email, is in no way an excuse to lets say, hinder the communications of users on the free access points in berlin, or certain hackerspaces, to pornsites hosted with media temple, softlayer, the-planet, etc, just because they have a cb3rob/cyberbunker ip address and some websites that just so happen to be referred to in spam sent over third party infrastructue just so happens to mention their urls. (what if they start mentioning in the 'spam' ;)
an obsolete protocol from 1964, can NEVER be an excuse to either disconnect clients or hinder communications over any other protocol.
17: if you want stuff shut down, get in line with tim kuik, the riaa, mpaa, scientology, and what not else... and try to get COURT ORDERS. something that is a bit hard to get on spamhaus itself, seing that they operate from offshore with a bunch of limiteds and IBCs that either don't even have an office or are scrapped years ago (and still in whois ;)
18: -we- never choose to cooperate with spamhaus in anything, we didn't request any sbl removal since 2004 (also because we don't use email at all and that seems to be the only way to contact them), we have no legal nor contractual obligation to help them keep their database, which is illegal in the first place anyway, up to date, and therefore most of the listings date back to 2010, are overlaps, or are generally just ip ranges we once announced on one of our ASN's but which never had a single computer in them in the first place.. 'suspect range' haha.. seriously. what a bunch of fools at spamhaus.
its also funny that they advertise their DROP list as 'being under the full control of 'spammers' or 'hijacked' as the main reason we seem to have landed on DROP is: because we told a2b internet to report spamhaus to the cops for blackmail, which, spamhaus did. the DROP listing came several hours after the press statement on that, with no 'new' sbl's whatsoever.
(and since then i haven't been able to go to and and TORRENTFREAK over ipv4 (ipv6 works fine, as spamhaus never heard of anything thats newer than 1964 anyway - those people still use nntp and smtp of all things, and are nowhere to be found on skype and facebook ;)

don't get me wrong, you're perfectly free to 'defend' your silly old protocol nobody reads anymore in any way you like, just make sure it doesn't have impact on -anything- else and most definately don't spread slander and personal details of people you claim to be 'criminals' 'crazy' 'spammers' 'frauders' and what not without any trial, as that is NOT up to spamhaus to decide, but up to courts.

as for people 'resolving' spamhaus, its generally not such a good idea to outsource your censorship to a vague bunch of limiteds run by people with a shady background, now is it.

Prince Sven Olaf of CyberBunker,
CyberBunker and affiliates.

Posted by: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP
Date: 2013-03-20 08:02:50
Subject: STOPHaus

and indeed, STOPhaus is not 'andrew stephens' alone.
at the moment it's some 30-40 people, several of which with a rather long history regarding datanetworks under the 'imma click on the big blue e' level. (unlike spamhaus, whom barely seem to understand classless ipv4 routing).
As for anonymous... :P well.. you'll find out.
Anon may not be 'our private army' but anon certainly has interests in keeping the internets free of little self declared internet dictators with an e-penis problem... (hi steve, maybe you should take some of that viagra ;)

Posted by: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP
Date: 2013-03-20 08:05:17
Subject: paid trolls

I see we have some paid troll staff of spamhaus in here.. the same ones pop up everywhere, don't they.

Posted by: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP
Date: 2013-03-20 08:07:43
Subject: terrorism

you need to adjust your definition of terrorism :P the mossad blowing up some over insured 1970s skyscrapers to give george bush and co an excuse to expand the zionists influence, is not terrorism, thats an act of war.
what spamhaus is doing, is terrorism, by each and every definition of it including the one of your own FBI.

Posted by: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis, MP
Date: 2013-03-20 08:18:51
Subject: you missed one question there.

there is a question missing from your list.

What in the world gives spamhaus the right to 'expect' marketeers to 'work together with them' when SpamHaus deliberately CAUSES issues, the manhours alone are extortion of financial resources, as spamhaus should not even BE in such a position.

Posted by: Jim H
Date: 2013-03-20 12:11:23
Subject: Sounds Reasonable to Me

The Spamhaus approach sounds reasonable to me. If mailers don't want their mailings blocked, they need to follow the Spamhaus guidelines designed to prevent delivery of email to those not wanting it. It's all about permission.

Posted by: STOPhaus
Date: 2013-03-20 12:55:42
Subject: Hello Jim Higgins. Nice Alias.

Welcome Jim Higgins, an alias nym used on nanae, a USENET group dedicated to tormenting anyone they deem unfit or unworthy of peering. Not for their own purposes, but to tell SPamhaus to tell the world not to peer. Linford has been a regular on this group since at least 1998 and the largest part of his following is on this group. The group is known for anonymous bashing and poo-flinging (according to Ken) and they post comments in blogs like this one as a team to produce misleading media and hope to manipulate masses. They have done a good job at doing this behind the worlds' backs for many years, but the http web has progressed and we have better tools to track, better tools to inform, and better tools to prevent their attempts to collectively send abuse complaints in order to suppress media.


Posted by: HRH Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis
Date: 2013-03-20 13:01:46
Subject: Re: Jim H

"If mailers don't want their mailings blocked, they need to follow the Spamhaus guidelines designed to prevent delivery of email to those not wanting it. It's all about permission." you know damn well that it is -not- about smtp, or mailings, or spam, considering that we don't even use any of those...

also you know damn well that ISPs being amateuristic enough to outsource filtering (of anything) to shady limiteds such as 'spamhaus', also block that for their customers, and im QUITE SURE that TORRENTFREAK as well as those pornsites and stormfront at media-temple, softlayer, and the-planet, which resolve -your- slanderous "DROP" bullshit, DO want our traffic, even if some dusty nerd at their ISPs NOC decides its a good idea to outsource filtering/censorship to 'spamhaus' and whatever foreign interests may be behind that in terms of funding.

if it would be about 'spam' it would suffice to set up a network of honeypots, list ips that originate spam, put those in a list, and nothing else, and remove them again after a few days-weeks, and be done with it... but -that- would not give you and your cronies the opportunity to gain a position of power any dicatorial regime would be proud of, now would it.

Posted by: HRH Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis
Date: 2013-03-20 13:12:36
Subject: Re: Jim H 2.0

"mailers"... poeh... we've sent out exactly -5- smtp emails over the past 2 years, get over it dude, its dead, and to be exact, people like YOU are the cause that its dead.

first you made it no longer p2p by harrassing all open proxies

then you made it impossible to use it real time by harrassing all home providers into closing port 25, so people could not longer run their own smtpd on their workstations and read it real-time

then you people came up with 'graylisting' which DELAYED it (as-if spammers can't install a normal mail daemon haha)

and to make matters worse, it's given rise to a whole collection of vague outlets providing censorship services, most of which (hermes-grp, sorbs, spews and whatever other idiots may have been around) have been meanwhile slurped up into 'spamhaus'. (yes, those are mainly the same people).

if you TRUELY wanted to solve the 'spam' 'problem' on that old smtp shit, you would spend 5 minutes writing a new rfc and 2 minutes adding a header so receivers can issue senders a password and everything else goes through the 'friend request' procedure... fyi, thats what every protocol written -after- 1964 does and it works fine for skype and all other instant messagers. calling people that never send out smtp, choose to have nothing to do with you, or your vague outlet 'spammers' and harrassing them and their suppliers, with undefined intentions (as 'fighting spam' most definately is not very high on your de-facto priorities list - thats the one thing you don't seem to do)

in fact, while your infrastructure was mostly down, spam has gotten LESS... maybe you're sending it out yourself? i always wondered why 'spammers' would send out mails where you cannot click and buy their products, unless ofcourse, most of it is only there to give spamhaus a 'reason' to exist.

not that smtp is in any way still relevant, as someone already stated, the web has moved on. and you're the ones that seem stuck with crap I didn't even use in 1994 anymore.

Posted by: HRH Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis
Date: 2013-03-20 13:14:28

Spamhaus gone? good riddance & fair game.

SMTP gone? "and nothing of value was lost".
(as we say in AnonOps ;)

Posted by: HRH Sven Olaf von CyberBunker-Kamphuis
Date: 2013-03-20 13:19:49

The whole notion that IP addresses can have a 'reputation' is wrong in the first place. all you lot ever did was terrorizing customers away from provider A to provider B (actually not terrorizing the customer, but the providers).
that is neither the way to get stuff removed long term (law making and enforcement would be, or in this case, a revised RFC for SMTP would suffice ;), nor is it the way to 'find support from ISPs'... actually they only give you your way because they're scared you might list other ip ranges... and so far none of em got the idea to flatten spamhaus with its legal department, mainly due to miscommunications between the 'dusty nerds in the basement' and the 'people upstairs'... all of that, is soon to change.

[Editor’s note: When I copied and pasted the comments to Word, I apparently neglected to get the time stamp and name of the last commenter below. By the time I realized this, my tech person had already eliminated the comments at my request and it was too late to get the omitted information. In any case, you get the gist.]

In response to the smokescreens

In response to a troll from nanae on WHT, trying to misdirect and smokescreen the issues at hand by drawing attention to an irrelevant and outdated criminal record of a guy that Spamhaus has mislead the public into believing represents us, STOPhaus released this statement:

The fact that you are using a nym that nanae and Spamhaus attributed to Andrew Stephens (a new account). It is reasonable to assume that your entire purpose is to defame Andrew. Possibly because you are listed on STOPhaus' forum and possibly because you are afraid of public scrutiny about the topic at hand and wish to misdirect the attention to a criminal record of one person that appears to be over 10 years old and for crimes such as receiving stolen property and carrying a concealed weapon. What do these charges have to do with the topic at hand unless STOPhaus were, indeed, the work of Andrew. Which it is not, as Sven Olaf has made perfectly clear on Ken Magill's blog.

Maybe you should concern yourself with discussing the issue at hand and not attempt to smokescreen the topic with some guy's criminal record from the 90's and early 00's, that is irrelevant to anything. It is a perfect example of why STOPhaus exists today. The character assassination methods are not good in politics and they are no good here.

I also looked at your Pinellas County website and see that your victim does have a trial for a simple battery misdemeanor charge. It is not a conviction and the defendant is trying the case. Have you passed judgment before the judge? Sounds like something Spamhaus does regularly. I also looked up this smear you are using about Hamilton County, Ohio and it seems that it is another misdemeanor and is not a warrant, is not a criminal case, and still has nothing to do with the topics at hand.




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Terms: Feel free to be as big a jerk as you want, but don't attack anyone other than me personally. And don't criticize people or companies other than me anonymously. Got something crappy to say? Say it under your real name. Anonymous potshots and personal attacks aimed at me, however, are fine.

Posted by: Ken Magill
Date: 2013-03-27 14:54:53
Subject: Stophaus

Are you behind the DDOS attacks on Spamhaus? If so, may I have a statement as to why and what it is you're attempting to accomplish? (seriously) I'm asking this for possible followup coverage.
Posted by: jb
Date: 2013-03-27 11:22:16
Subject: nyt news

Interesting bit of news, ken: Looks like you have soap opera drama on your hands!
Posted by: The STOPhaus Movement
Date: 2013-03-26 16:37:05
Subject: Re: Jim Ducharme

Are you suggesting that the proper dialect is that of your choosing?
Posted by: The STOPhaus Movement
Date: 2013-03-26 16:34:43
Subject: STOPhaus is not a Person

The STOPhaus Movement would like to make it clear that it is a cooperative effort of many people with many personalities. Unless Mr. Magill likes to hang articles on his wall as wallpaper and open his doors to the public, his home and his blog are very different. Maybe Ken wanted one-sided comments or to plug Spamhaus at a time they are being targeted. Whatever his goal was to promote Linford at this time, it found blowback organically. Welcome to the wonderful world of journalism Magill, we thought you knew how controversial issues worked.
Posted by: Fred Swain
Date: 2013-03-26 15:50:42

Wow - i thought you were harsh in your comments about the comments but you were spot on. The long comment was's to him taking his soapbox and going home...
Posted by: Ken Magill
Date: 2013-03-26 15:18:17
Subject: Another credo to live by

I decided the comments' instructional value to my readers outweighed the don't-feed-the-trolls credo. Thanks though.
Posted by: Megan Jones
Date: 2013-03-26 15:10:59
Subject: Another credo to live by...

Don't feed the trolls! It's what they WANT.
Posted by: Jim Ducharme
Date: 2013-03-26 14:56:27
Subject: HRH Sven

A real Prince Olaf would never say "dude." Regards, jim
Posted by: Stefanie Pont
Date: 2013-03-26 14:50:45
Subject: Proof?

Dear Ken - if you tell me you saw a horrible wreck on the highway with bodies strewn about, I believe you. I don't need to see the video. If you say someone is batshit, I most usually believe you. Please disable the comments again - you made my computer cry.